Mavis Gragg
Photography: Jillian Clark
Location: THE STORE
Interview by:
Charman Driver
Mavis Gragg | Attorney. Renaissance Woman. Nature Girl. Art Enthusiast. Legacy Builder. Human.
“We don’t have to stick to what we think we are supposed to do, or what people tell us we are supposed to do… Transformation should be informed by your values.”
– Mavis Gragg
CD: You are the very definition of a renaissance woman; a person with many talents and areas of expertise. I’d need a few days of interviewing you to get to ‘all the things’ [both laughing]. You are a busy woman, but busy building community—which is admirable.
MG: Five years ago, I left my big law firm job in DC and became a solo practitioner in Durham, NC. Gragg Law Firm specializes in what I call ‘death and dirt’. I have three practice areas: estate planning, estate administration, and heirs property matters. I created my practice so that I can help Black individuals and families maintain and grow wealth through sound legal strategies and problem solving.
What I’ve learned is that there are many ways I can accomplish these ambitions other than practicing law. To that end, I have recently accepted a position with the American Forest Foundation as the Program Director for the Sustainable Forestry and African American Land Retention Project. This role gives me the opportunity to expand on the work I do for family land throughout the Southeast, along with the resources to make a much larger impact. I will eventually wind down my practice.
CD: Brava, Mavis! Congratulations.
MG: Thank you! I gave up my big firm job to reinvigorate myself after unexpectedly losing both my parents. I never imagined the journey would lead me to the woods.
CD: Well, you are the Chair of the board of directors for Triangle Land Conservancy, President of the board at the Dispute Settlement Center, and you serve on the North Carolina Parks and Recreation Authority appointed by Governor Roy Cooper. It makes total sense to me!
MG: Yes, I guess it does. I joined Triangle Land Conservancy because I thought it made sense for me given my work. It’s a great organization to be involved with, fiscally sound, and doing notable work in the Triangle. We have a stellar board and it’s been a pleasure to be a part of it.
CD: Let me say it again—Brava, Mavis!
I met you a few years ago during an art opening at the Contemporary Art Museum in Raleigh (CAM). I knew you to be an arts enthusiast and collector before I knew your day job. You host a Meet the Artist talk series. How did you become such a champion of the arts?
MG: I served as a docent at the now-closed Corcoran Gallery of Art in D.C., where I also helped raise funds for their youth arts program as an active member of their 1869 Society, which was a young professionals group.
My experience at the Corcoran is where I became an arts advocate. I felt a responsibility to be a custodian of art and connect people to art. The Corcoran’s model was approachability. When people came into the Gallery, they should be able to ask questions, they shouldn’t feel intimidated, and there should be conversation. I don’t think conversation happens in many arts institutions.
Arts advocacy fit naturally with me because as a lawyer I have to explain multi-layered concepts in a way that anyone can understand. I mediate conversation between art and the art consumer too. This allows me to champion making art accessible to my community. People seem confused or intimidated by art and I don’t think it has to be that way. It should be easy for an artist and an aspiring collector to talk to each other. At the Meet the Artist talks people feel comfortable enough to ask real questions like, “How much does your work cost?” and “Can I do a payment plan?”
CD: Many well-known collectors started on payment plans. The Rubell Family Collection started that way. Mera Rubell tells the story about how she was a Head Start teacher supporting her husband, Don, in medical school and making very little money, They were on a payment plan with all these now super-famous artists. As we all know, their collection is priceless. Are people buying art as a result of the talks?
MG: It’s building interest. People are genuinely interested—and buying art, which is exciting to me because it proves that artists and aspiring collectors need space to converse with each other and build mutually beneficial relationships.
CD: Ok. Next up… Black Women Drone. Tell me more.
MG: That was a mimosa-intoxication project [both laughing]. My sister, Monica, is a ‘starter’. I have ideas, but Monica launches ideas. I was with her in Miami for Art Basel week and having lots of drinks. We were discussing the work I do and she works in education technology. I suggested we start Black Women Drone before someone else did. More so, I was thinking about the name and the intellectual property than anything else, but within two weeks she had launched our website and our business account. I’m glad we did it.
Black Women Drone encourages Black women and girls to become drone pilots and close the gender gap. So many Black women have come to us asking how to start. Droning is a great option for women of color. Only 3.8% of drone pilots are women and Black women barely make a dent in that number. There is a lot of opportunity to get in the industry early since it’s a new area and it’s growing quickly.
We want to be a resource for growing wealth in the Black community. Our goal is community, education, and connecting women to businesses that hire drone operators. If you do commercial droning you have to get a license through the FAA. I’m in the process of completing my drone licensing. This realm is new for me since practicing law is not about operating machinery. I’m really good with directions but how you use the drone is a little bit different. It feels like driving backwards to me but I’m excited.
CD: You’re smart and this conversation will motivate many women. With all that you have going, I want to know how you take care of yourself from our BY: NEST perspective. What does it mean to you to be Nourished?
MG: In the media and amongst friends it’s easy to use the term self-care without actually thinking about what that means. Nourishment is a core component of my self-care. Since I started my practice, when things get really busy and overwhelming, I ask, “What does Mavis need?”
As lawyers our profession demands that we work tirelessly—it’s not the way to live. When I left my big firm job and took a sabbatical, I felt like I was at a point where I had to leave the job or die. We should never have to be at that crossroads. I was very malnourished.
I do a lot and there are a lot of things I care deeply about—and sometimes I’m stretched too thin. For me, nourishment is quality time with the people I love and creativity. I get invigorated by being with friends and family and I feel nourished when I’m being creative. I also apply the 5 Love Languages in my relationships.
CD: What is it to be empowered?
MG: Having a sense of agency and feeling like I can make decisions for myself—and doing it from a place of being informed. A huge part of empowerment is having access to information.
CD: How do you empower others?
MG: By making information accessible to them.
CD: You certainly do that with your law practice, the arts, and drones!
MG: Education is the beginning and then accessibility. It feels good to be able to do this work.
CD: How do you shape your body?
MG: Swimming in the pool or ocean is my personal heaven. Swimming helps me feel empowered as well. When I’m in the water—and floating—I can move my body in ways that I can’t on land. I was also drumming with an Afro-Brazilian drumming group for two years. It is so much fun and feels like a really spiritual way to use my body to communicate.
CD: What is it to be transformed?
MG: My parents passed away unexpectedly. That was a very strong indicator to me that I don’t have to live my life the same way all the time—or follow a straight line.
It sucks that I had to go through a traumatic experience to see that I can pivot and do things differently. I knew I wanted to be a lawyer since I was six years old, so it was kind of ingrained in my mind. At some point I asked myself, “What am I doing this for?”, “Who am I doing this for?”, and “Is it meeting my needs?”
After sabbatical, I thought I’d find a new career. A life coach helped me realize I liked practicing law, I just wasn’t practicing law the way I wanted to practice. The profession needs to change how it operates. In NC the third most common cause of death for a lawyer is suicide, number two is drug and alcohol related, and number one is heart attack. It’s a risky business.
It’s important to be open to transformation. We don’t have to stick to what we think we are supposed to do, or what people tell us we are supposed to do. Also transformation should be informed by your values. Coaching and therapy helped me identify my values. When things get challenging, I can look back at them and answer whether or not what I’m doing aligns with those values,
CD: Tell me about your family’s foundation?
MG: The Gragg Family Fund is a donor-advised fund with the Community Foundation of Western North Carolina. Because of the way my parents passed away, we were awarded a wrongful death settlement. It felt weird to get money related to their death, so my sister and I decided to establish a donor-advised fund as a way to honor them and their legacy. We received great guidance on what a fund could look like, how it would honor our parents, and how to make it sustainable. The community foundation made it so easy. We told them what we wanted to accomplish and they helped us do it. Establishing the Fund was a great source of relief coming from a tragic situation.
For many people who knew and cared about my parents, contributing to the Fund is a way to honor them, while also doing something good for young people. Donors love knowing their contribution helped send a kid to Zimbabwe or New Zealand. Recently we were able to support the artist Kennedi Carter with a trip to Milan to participate in Vogue Italia’s Photography Show. The Gragg Family Fund is a way to bring in some light.